What Happens When Someone Disagrees With You?
Catmull: I asked Steve — what happens when somebody doesn't agree with you? He said: well, I just explain it to them until they understand.
I went back to my colleagues and explained this. They all had this nervous laugh.
The Weekly Counterargument
Catmull: In all the 26 years with Steve, we never had one of these loud verbal arguments. It's not in my nature. But we did disagree fairly frequently.
I would say something to him and he would immediately shoot it down because he could think faster than I could. So I would wait a week. I'd call him up and give my counterargument to what he had said. He'd immediately shoot it down. So I'd wait another week. Sometimes this went on for months.
He would immediately shoot it down because he could think faster than I could. So I would wait a week.
Three Outcomes
Catmull: In the end, one of three things happened. About a third of the time he said — oh, I get it, you're right. And that was the end of it.
Another third of the time, I'd think — actually, he is right.
The other third, where we didn't reach consensus, he just let me do it my way. Never said anything more about it.
A third of the time he said you're right. A third I realized he was right. A third he just let me do it my way.
The Unreported Arc of Steve Jobs
Catmull: Steve was so incredibly smart that he was learning from those mistakes. He was learning that certain kinds of overreaching get in the way.
By the time we got to dealing with Disney, he was going for a 50/50 partnership. The way he delivered hard news changed dramatically. He became an empathetic person.
Most of the people who saw this change in Steve stayed with him for the rest of his life. That arc in Steve is unreported.
He became an empathetic person. That arc in Steve is unreported.